Andreas Højbjerre pointed out that the report’s findings highlight the challenges of increasing migrant women’s labour market participation. The report’s recommendations – individual benefits, effective outreach programmes, and flexible introduction programmes – may work locally but could pose challenges when scaled up to the national level. Højbjerre asked Thomas Liebig for advice on how to better scale them up.
– It’s an important question, as there are many small projects that work well. The good news is that there are always motivated migrants and natives who want to participate. Often, we think these projects depend on one single person, but if this is the case, it’s not sustainable. You have to design a course or a national framework. The infrastructure should be nationalised, but the action could still be local, Thomas Liebig responded.
Annika Sandlund reminded the audience of the enormous scale of the global refugee crisis. According to the UNHCR, the number of forcibly displaced people worldwide has doubled in the last ten years and now constitutes 1.5% of the global population.
Annika Sandlund noted that employment is seen as a key measure of success in Nordic countries. Over time, migrants in Sweden have increasingly aligned with local values, contributing more to society and achieving significantly higher employment rates.
Thomas Liebig agreed and provided data to emphasise the point that policies and institutions play a crucial role in establishing norms that align with Nordic values such as gender norms. Refugees often come from countries where women are not seen as equal to men. When asked if men should be prioritised over women if jobs are scarce, 10% of immigrants in Sweden agreed, compared to only 2% of natives.
– Politicians in Sweden may see this as alarming, but if you look at the whole range of countries, between 30 and 40% of the native population in Italy, Poland, or Greece think men should have rights to jobs before women. The immigrants in Sweden are still much more gender progressive than native-born Greeks, Italians, and Poles.
Thomas Liebig says these graphs are among the most positive he has produced in his research career: they show that the old notion that culture always trumps migration policy is wrong.
– This shows that you can do something, and what you do matters.
Áshildur Linnet raised the question of whether labour participation is the same as integration. Despite the integration courses and the family-oriented approach, she noted that the Scandinavian countries have a problem when it comes to putting to use the skills and education of migrants, who, in many cases, are overqualified for the jobs they do.
– We are losing out because other countries have invested in these people. Neither from a political nor a social point of view is it wise not to maximise the benefits of the migrants’ skills. What you do, why you do it, and a sense of belonging are most important for successful integration and for a successful Nordic region.
Áshildur Linnet noted that the native population in the Nordics tends to focus on immigration issues too much from their own point of view.
– If you want effective policy changes, you have to ask the people who are affected by the policy and include them. The solution might differ from what you perceive as the challenge, and if we do that, we would have much more effective policies and a more inclusive society.
Moderator Elin Landell also highlighted that strictly linking family benefits to employment could widen the inequality gap between migrant and native parents, increasing the risk of poverty. However, such a link could also boost the incentives to seek employment. Landell asked Thomas Liebig for his perspective on these conflicting positions.
– We are aware of the conflict and are just pointing out the risks. Usually, the women affected by this are not employed even before they have the child. What is most important is to give women some attachment to the labour market before childbirth so they don’t lose it for a very long time after having a child.
Thomas Liebig reiterated the importance of policies, emphasising that attitudes can shift despite traditional cultural values. Considering all factors, he highlights that programmes targeting refugee women have the most significant impact.
– What you do specifically for refugee women has a much greater payoff later in terms of employment gains than for any other group.